Pellonkuja 2H14 FIN-61800 Kauhajoki FINLAND EUROPEKysymyksia haastattelua varten.
01. Your line-up seems to fluctuate a lot. Have you ever counted the number of people who have been in God Is My Co-Pilot?
Yes, I did a whole GodCo family tree for Lowlife magazine, but then the editor of Lowlife tried to live up to the zine's name by doing lots of heroin and being run out of town, so I don't think that issue will ever come out. I think the completed tree is probably a kind of a specialized-interest thing, so I haven't tried to sell it to Rolling Stone or People or anything. Michael Evans, drummer etc., says it's like a basketball team, where there are a certain number of people in training, and then the coach (that would be me in this metaphor) picks who are the starters, who's the travelling squad, who to put in to make special plays, and so on.
02. How often do you have gigs? What kind of places do you play?
We play more often in New York than any other band, I think... certainly if you remember that we have averaged more than one show per week in the city since 1990. We can play so much partly because there's not just one kind of place for us to play; we love doing gigs that aren't just like a "rock show" in a "rock club" Naturally, we play at CBGBs and Knitting Factory and places like this, and we also play regularly at the art-performance space Gargoyle Mechanique, and at hardcore matinees at ABC No Rio. At least once every summer we play at the Sideshows by the Seashore at Coney Island, which we always enjoy; the carnival atmosphere is already in place! We've played at three Radical Jewish Culture festivals now... we like that, because in addition to letting us play for people who like us but would never have come to see us at ABC, the different context lets us hear our own music in a very different way, and makes us pay a lot of attention to things like how we relate to an audience.
Sometimes we play out under the name of "Pope Joan" as well, doing shows where we perform very non-GodCo material. Pope Joan has played a set as a bar band in a sleazy dive on Houston St, has played a set of Indonesian, Ukrainian, and Broadway cover tunes at a jazz club, and has provided the music for a live dance performance.
Lately, we've had a regular Sunday night at a bar in our neighborhood called the Continental Divide, where the show is either really cheap, or free.
03. Many of your songs sound like they're half improvised. When you write a song, how long does it take before you are ready to perform it live?
We've taken both extremes on this, I think. Also on the similar question of how long do we wait before recording a song we've written. First, you should know that we have never played a show where we did not debut at least one new song, so we always have new material that we're working out. It just depends how quickly we think something is coming together, and whether we think it will come together more quickly if we put ourselves on the spot with it. There are times we've come up with something in soundcheck, and decided to work it into the set because we think it will fit. On the other hand, there are a couple things we've been playing in rehearsal for a year or two now, that we like parts of, but that we haven't really arranged as songs, or that we don't feel we have together well enough to perform live. You mention improvisation in connection with this, but that's really not part of the question; I should probably talk about improvisation separately.
Examples: Madly They Did Ride was the first song we wrote, but we didn't record it for 3 years, it should be out in the Summer. The song At Home is really fun to play, and we play it for fun, but we haven't done it on stage yet. On the other hand, I wish we'd waited to record Eye Contact, because I think we've learned it much better now. Likewise I think with Double Dutch, the time feel of that one was kind of hard for us to get, and we don't sound very comfortable on the record. Doing the live record was great, because we got to go back for a second chance at many songs.
But back to improvisation... My favorite new stupid review is the one where the reviewer likes the songs of ours that "sound like early Ex", but not the ones that "sound made up in the studio". But he totally got it backwards. The ones that sound like old punk are the ones we made up on the spot... that stuff's easy! Actually, we've pulled a page straight out of the Charles Mingus workbook and applied it to our music. To me, most "improv", at least as I hear it round these parts, ends up in one of two boring catagories: precious wank, or generic silliness, which is to say, if you say "let' s play the blues" , any bunch of idiots with instruments can approximate a song, and I guess that technically you might call that improvising if they didn't write it all out first, but not enough creation really goes into it to earn the name. What we like to do, (which we credit Mingus with inspiring, whether he'd like what we do with it or not,) is to integrate written and ad-libbed material in unusual ways, not just riff-solos-riff, but in ways that can change the structure of the song. ; It can be an easy thing, like "the 2nd verse of this one is always different", or "then we stay in 5, and make it to the 2step section" or "follow Alex, and Sharon and fly will cue us back"; or it can be something more elaborate, like
AK LC X CF SD >st> v=3,4 ; v'=3+1,4+1 ; v down = sermon ; >sd>out ,
which is our song We Don't Sleep, where the form is always fixed in this pattern, the subject of the lyrics is always the same, and the time signatures are always the same (except in the first part, which is up to AK & LC) , but the key, the melody, the length of the sections, and the exact lyrics can vary completely from performance to performance, following the rules of the song.
04. Did you beg John Zorn and Elliott Sharp to join GodCo or did they want to join by themselves?
Ha! What a way to put the question! No, we don't beg.... We had released 3 singles and an album ( I Am Not This Body ), and recorded half of what would become How To Be. We had been in the studio working on Speed Yr Trip. I was talking to John one day and he was saying some nice things about GodCo. I already knew he didn't mind the band because he'd been to see us, and had thanked us on Spy Vs. Spy and on the 1st Naked City LP. So anyhow, like I said we were recording at that time, and I'd also just started working out the idea of using saxophone in some of our songs; our drummer Michael is also a sax player, and we'd been playing with Andy Haas (recordings with Andy from this time are on How To Be). So of course I invited John to come play on some stuff, and as you know, he did. He was easy to work with and we had fun. Interestingly enough, John and Andy had been friends for years, but had never played together before doing our song "Scratch & Sniff." John doesn't play with us on a regular basis. I think my favorite time playing with him was when we had a soprano sax player lined up for a show who got very sick on the day, and John filled in on soprano, which he hadn't played in some time. That was one of my favorite soundcheck rehearsals, too. We 1st played with Elliott at a benefit for the sound gallery Generator in NYC, which was really happening while it was happening, but isn't happening anymore. Generator was the brainbaby of Gen Ken, a noise artist who will be recognized by GodCo fans as the "violin player" on I Am Not This Body, as well as a main player on our Getting Out Of Boring Time Biting Into Boring Pie album. E# was a big Generator fan too, so we made a quartet of Sharon, Craig, Elliott, and Michael to play a fundraiser for Ken's place... I think we called it the God Is My Co-Pilot Slash & Burn Song Improv Unit, or something silly. We played two hour-long sets, all songs no filler, all improvised lyrics and music, and we had so much fun that we went into the studio together to do the Straight Not album.
05. Who actually are the core of the band?
Sharon is the leader of the band. Craig is the musical director. Neither Siobhan nor Michael has played continuously with the group since its inception, but they've both played with us for years and still do. Likewise Alex, who was guitar player and roadie for us before he became bass player. Fly's done stuff with us for years, but never on a regular basis until recently, now she's rehearsing and performing at every show. Fred Lonberg-Holm is very busy, but manages to join us to rehearse for a record, a tour, or some shows as his time permits, usually about every 3 or 4 months. At the same time, I still think of Marion Coutts and Gilles Rieder as band members, even though neither of them lives in the USA. I guess it's a matter of personal chemistry and of course group sound rather than having people assigned to play specific instruments, that is, one bass player, one drummer, etc ; we've played with a number of different combinations, but none that I felt uncomfortable calling God Is My Co-Pilot.
06. Music-wise, what's the scene like in New York nowadays?
Same as it ever was
07. What are some of your favorite NYC bands/performers?
We like a performance duo called Scumwrenches; we've just played a show with them, and we have two more coming up. They're political, they're funny, they're loud, and they are totally non-stop, and we like that a lot.
We like Cat Power, they are magic. They are the opposite of us in some ways; their songs are long and mesmerizing, their singer is quiet and shy on the stage. We heard that they have not broken up, and we hope they haven't. Cat Power singer Chan Marshall has a beautiful voice.
Vibraslaps are great, but you knew we think so, because we put out a single by them. Catherine as la voix d'un ange, as I have said many times, and nous 1'admire beaucoup. Electronic percussion was invented specifically for Ikue Mori. She plays like no one else.
Actually, I've had more fun in the last few weeks, and learned more about staging, going to very non-rock shows, in places I'd never been to before.
1st stop in the "Learn About Staging" tour is a huge nightclub called the Palladium, where my friend Krisko has invited me to come watch her dance half-naked in a metal cage suspended 20 meters over the crowded dance floor. This is her job, this is what she does for a living. Some other girls dance before her; they're all way too worried about looking sexy to be at all interesting. One does a really manic routine that looks like Aerobics On Fast Forward. Krisko calls her a "fucking chihuahua". Krisko herself, when her turn comes, doesn't really dance at all; she climbs around on the bars of the cage like a little kid on a jungle gym, she chins herself up, she slips and almost falls. She's easily the most engaging cage dancer to watch. 2nd stop is the Boys Club on lOth St, where my friend Jen's dad, who's a magician, is putting on a magic show for a packed house of about a hundred boys, aged 8 to 10. It's a hard audience to warm up, rowdy and with a very short attention span, but he's a master at keeping things moving, always changing tactics to keep the kids engaged. He starts out the show in a silly disguise, but loses it as soon as it's not funny anymore. At several points in the show he asks for volunteers from the audience, and at each successive point, the volunteer is worked into the act a little more; the first one just pulls a card out of a deck, the second comes on stage and holds the magic hat, the third donates the dollar bill which is destroyed and magically restored, and at last, a group of 8 kids handcuff the Magician's Beautiful Assistant and padlock her into the trunk from which she makes her escape. Now that's theatre! It's really a letdown after cage dancers and magicians to go to a rock show, and watch the same 2 or 3 tired attitudes being recycled. You know the ones I mean: Rock God, Junkie Cool, or maybe for a change, Indie Cool.
08. Who are those Finnish girls on "She's So Butch"? Are they fans?
I asked Taavi and she said Yes, they are BIG fans! They are famous American dancers (not cage dancers, ballerina dancers. ) Taavi is the singer in a band called The Hattifatteners. If you have the Gender Is As Gender Does single, you might have a picture of her kissing Sharon.
09. Since you seem to be interested in different languages etc., I would like to know if all of you are originally American. Does Sharon have a degree in foreign languages?
There is nothing more American than having a total collision of different languages and cultures. (Although some Americans can't seem to remember that!) Most of us were born here: Craig, Sharon, Siobhan, Michael, Laura, Ann, Christine, Andy, Bill Ylitaloo even though he's got that Fin-like name. Some not: Alex war in Deutschland geboren, Marion in Nigeria, Taavi in the land of Fins, Fly in Canada our frozen neighbor to the North, Fred was born in Ruotsi. Sometimes our friends come from other planets to record with us: Gilles from Suisseland, Yoshimi from Nihonland. Sometimes we go there and record with them: w/ Margaret in England, w/ Jason in Scotland. Bill Lynn sends us tapes of new songs from Mpls, and we learn them.
The coolest language stuff always happens in the cracks between. We don't pretend to be fluent, but that's not the fun anyway. Between us, we can understand enough of a dozen different languages to order from a menu, find the house we're staying in if we're lost in another country, or write a song about hearing voices that tell us to save France. I don't mind if people laugh at my bad accent (or worse grammar). Anteeksi puutteellinen suomenninkielentaitoni. Sharon parlays Francais, et aussi un peu Quebecois, and also she has years of Hebrew school, and zi redt a bisl Yidish, but who doesn't? Jeder kann Deutsch sprechen, weil es so leich ist. In our neighborhood, you have to know a little Polish and a little Spanish of course.
/disfluency musical I think this attitude has, something to do with how we started the Band too... I realize there are different ways to learn guitar, but me, I just picked it up and started to play. Two weeks later I was in a band. Sharon too. Siobhan too. And Laura. We had this thing we wanted to do.
I never learn a language by sitting and studying, I just pick up stuff from people that I want to talk to. If you want a language, learn to say "how do you say...?" and then hang around with native speakers. Wie'sagt man? Jak powiedic?
10. Is it really true that your next album will include some tracks sung in Finnish? Tell us about it!
Mir Shlufn Nisht! The album of Finnish and Yiddish songs! Well, mostly, anyway... also some English and Hebrew, and some instrumentals that would speak Spanish if they sang. Recorded in 1992, to be released absolutely any minute now on Avant records in Japan. This is one of my favorites. I'll be happy when it's available. "Mir shlufn nisht" is Yiddish for We Don't Sleep. It's kind of our idea of what we would play if we got a show opening for Muzsikas at a folk-dancing hall in Hungary. You think I'm kidding? Wait til you hear the record!
11. Your new single is called Su Vot Esta, what does that mean?
The single is called Su Vot Vot Esta Su Voz. En espanol, su vot is your vote & su voz is yr voice and that means valinnanvapaus on riippumattomuutta, or something like that, although there are arguments on both sides, and we present some of them in the little broadsheet that comes with the record. The song, of course, is deconstructed from the tune Vot Vot Ja Niin Niin, to commemorate kun Värttinä soitti Nykissa, ja Craig ja Kirsi rakastuivat. Or Craig and Raiska, depending how you tell the story.
12. How openly are you queer? Is it something you want to announce loudly?
There two unrelated questions to being out, for me. The first step of my coming out was just a matter of coming to term with my feelings; that can be kind of interesting to the person doing it, but it's not really front page news, if you know what I mean. I think the song Straight Not sums up how I felt coming out to myself. The second is one of those personal/political things, where queer invisibility has so many bad consequences, that being open is just a matter of conscience. How could I not be? I never really have "announced it loudly", but it's no shameful secret so I see no need to hide. The only time I went out of my way to set the record "straight", was when some fool tried to "in" me in Option magazine. That was kind of funny, and the magazine ran my reply, which was something to the effect of "get over yourself, Miss Thing!", in their next issue.
13. How your audiences have reacted to your being queer? Have you faced any hostility?
Our audiences have responded in a friendly fashion. God Is My Co-Pilot is a great way to meet men. I've certainly gotten some anti-Queer hostility in life, but the band seems to get a lot of support from our audience, straight as well as Queer.
14. Getting Out Of Boring Time 10" sounds very strange. What "instruments" were used during the process of recording that record? How did you get Quinnah Records to release it?
Quinnah Records were very excited to be able to release Boring Pie! Go figure. The record is very special because it is one of a small number of projects recorded at the legendary Plastikville studio.
.the Larry 7 story. Once in NYC there was a man named Larry, a gentle visitor to this time period from an earlier, analog era of history. Larry was an electronic wizard, who could build or repair any type of sound recording or producing device. His living room looked like the main studio of a Czech radio station, as envisioned by Martin Denny's art director. It was here that Boring Pie was recorded, on equipment, mostly salvaged and refurbished by Larry, that was completely state-of-the-art.. for 1952. In fact, Plastikville had just gone stereo, and Boring Pie was the first project to be recorded there utilizing this most modern of sound technologies. Sharon's vocals were recorded on a number of specialized microphones, including a beautiful old ribbon mic that Larry got from a man in Coney Island who had been an engineer for RCA in the 40s. All reverbs heard on the record were hand-built. The recording of the record is beautiful, and I'm v. happy with it. I had to look up a copy of the record to see what sound sources we listed on it... "objects, machines, projector" Not very helpful! None of the drums are real drums, but various things that sounded good when we set them up and recorded them as drums. The guitar was recorded through a number of novel amplifiers, including an old 8-track tape deck on one song. The bass is an old Danelectro with a body made of pressed cardboard. "Projector" means film projector, with we recorded with contact mics. PZM mics were placed on a tabletop to record things being manipulated on the table. At one point you can hear a duet of a flour sifter and an 8-track tape being chewed up in the machine. I think the only intoned instrument on the record is the marimba on 2 tracks.
15. Tell me something about the John Zorn's "Cobra" piece you performed recently.
Cobra is a game piece, where the players determine the musical content as well as the structure of any one performance, but the rules determine the types of choices the players are allowed to make. It's fast-paced (at least if it's played well!), and tends to favor a kind of purposeful disjunction, so we obviously found it v. attractive. Also, the piece uses hand signals , which is something we do too in performance. And, it's a fun game to play. The piece requires 12 musicians, so when I was approached to coordinate a Cobra performance, I took it as the perfect chance to get the whole GodCo band on stage at once, something I'd always kind of daydreamed about doing. The game isn't really elaborate, but it does have a lot of different cues, and it's very specific, so we had a big advantage in that over half of us had played in Cobra ensembles on stage before. It was fun to have people who'd played dozens of times (Fred, Anthony) and people who'd never (fly, Alex). It turned out to be even crazier than I expected, and it was great. For our performance, we added an extra thing to the game, which was that since every member of our band has experience on more than one instrument, we each had to play more than one thing.
16. How did your European tour go?
I must learn Hungarian. We want to go back to Europe -- It was a good tour because we went to so many different places. Instead of just playing in a few dozen bars and jugendzentrums in Germany, we went from Czechi to Espana, and played in churches, and 1000-seat halls, and all kinds of places. And instead of just running from the hotel to the venue and back, we got to spend some time with people in most of the places we played, although not enough of course; on tour you have to keep moving or you lose money. Our show in Nurnberg with Dog Faced Hermans came about in a funny way: The tour was over, and we had some days off in Europe. We'd all gone off on our own for a while. I'd been in Frankfurt, and I was supposed to meet Sharon and Laura at a DFH show in Nurnberg. I got to the venue late in the evening, and there was a sign on the door that said "Heute nacht: aus New York: God Is My Co-Pilot!" Hope I can borrow a guitar, I thought. Anyhow, Laura wasn't there, but Sharon was, and Michael and Fred had turned up too. Anthony had been on the tour, but he was off somewhere else, so the four of us played the show. Turns out that when Fred and Michael showed up, that Sharon and DFH figured that we could get meals and a place to stay from the club if we were added to the bill! That was a fun evening. Andy let me borrow his guitar.
17. I've been arguing with my friends about the track "Suliko", it sounds very Finnish. Tell me about it.
An old friend of Craig's named Liz Sidamon-Eristoff plays the cello, and is some kind of Georgian royalty in exile, a princess I think. For a while we lived with her in a big house in Brooklyn, and we used to play music sometimes. "Suliko" is a relatively recent Georgian tune, and the lyrics we sing are in Georgian, although I have also heard Russian lyrics. Suliko is doubly fascinating, as are so many folk songs, because of the different meanings attached to it over time, and the different ways it's been contextualized. One of its incarnations was as "Stalin's favorite song", although this is not the way Georgians hear it today, or of course how we think of it. We recorded the song because it was a good excuse to get together with Liz.
The same kind of differing perception happens with much of the Jewish material we do, and we're always hearing new stories about old songs we know. The song Katiusha, which we have recorded under the titles Katrussja and Katrinkan Laulu, is a good example. We sing the old Russian and the popular Hebrew lyrics, but there are also Red Army lyrics, and I understand there are lyrics in Suomi (which we would like to see if anyone could send them). When we were in Nurnberg, we heard a story about Russian immigrants who were amused that this tune, which they knew as a pop song, had been refitted with religious lyrics and worked into the Passover service.
18. I guess your musical tastes are very broad. Please drop some names.
Bally Sagoo is the mixmaster. He's from England, lives in Birmingham or Manchester I think, somewhere in the North, where there are lots of Asian immigrants. He's Indian. He does great sampling/mixing stuff. He did an Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan record called Magic Touch that's brilliant, he has some ragamuffin stuff, kind of Apache Indian stylie, and some very eclectic dancefloor/Asian stuff as well. I have no idea how you'd get this in Finland; here I have to go out to Little India in Queens, where the video stores all carry bhangra tapes. Maybe you could try the Bally Sagoo fanclub at 608 Coventry Rd, Birmingham B10 OUS. England. If you can get things mail order, I recommend a tape called Star Crazy.
There's a huge Turkish community in Germany. Most big cities seem to have at least one turkçe neighborhood. We had some time in Hamburg, and Fred and I turned up some wonderful music. You're probably already familiar with traditional Turkish sounds, but there's some very odd pop and disco that I'd never heard before. I'm no expert, but my favorite disco artists were Sezen Aksu and Yonca Evcimik. If you hate disco, you should check out Kurdish popular music, which is much more interesting rhythmically and harmonically.
Yale Strom is a brilliant fiddler who lives in Brooklyn. He's probably better known as a photographer and an author. He plays klezmer music beautifully, and his style also shows his knowledge and love of Hungarian and Gypsy music.
Dawson I think you ask me about later.
Muzsikas you probably already know. If you don't, then run to the record store right now, you can finish reading this interview later. They are from Hungary and have many records out, which are on Hungaraton in Europe or Hannibal in USA.
How many people do you hear say "I listen to all kinds of music"? I heard someone recently saying she liked "everything"... from Guns & Roses to Blind Melon. Wow! That's practically from one end of the top40 to the other! God forbid she should go wild and listen to something really transgressive, like maybe REM.
19. Craig, let's put this straight (not!): are you influenced by Arto Lindsay? I hear the same kind of abtract guitar noise stuff in both your playing...
I don't mind Arto Lindsay's guitar playing at all, and sure I hear a similar approach, but if I'm going to hand out credit for inspiration, he'll have to get in line behind D Boon of the Minutemen, Andy Gill of Gang Of 4, David and Jad Fair, and the guy from Big Flame, whose name I can never remember. Alan Brown? I think that's it. I also spent a lot of time listening to Fred Frith and Greg Ginn (Black Flag), although I'm just as happy not to sound like either one of them.
20. Is it true you were once a member of Half Japanese?
Jad Fair was a very early God Is My Co-Pilot fan. I don't think we'd been together for six months when he first heard us, and shortly after that he invited me to come to Europe to tour as a guitar player in Half Japanese. We toured for six months all over Northern Europe; it was very exciting for me. I was lucky because I'd always been a big fan of Mark Jickling's gtr playing w/ 1/2Jap, and the tour I did was also the only tour Mark had done with the band in about 8 years, so I got to play with him! Sharon got a job with the tour selling T-shirts & records, so she travelled with us too. We recorded a record in Holland, and Sharon sang on it with Jad. Making Of Americans has just released a single from this session.
21. You were gonna be signed to Ralph Records. Why did they chicken out?
Bad business judgement, I guess. Ralph weren't going to "sign" us, but we did record How To Be for them, paying for the recording, for which they were to reimburse us. Now, two years later, Project A-Bomb is planning to release the album in the States. So hopefully everything will finally work out.
22. I think "Straight Not" sounds softer, more sophisticated than your earlier records. Do you agree? If you agree, is you softening just you getting older?
Some fool writing about the record in the NME said that it was mellower because, he explained, we'd moved to California! I agree the record sounds different, but it's worth pointing out that Tight Like Fist, a much harsher and more frantic record, was recorded later, so I don't think that there's really a "softening" process going on. Maybe if our records came out in the order they were recorded, these reading problems wouldn't come up in the same way. But I doubt it...
There are a couple things happening from one record to the next, always. For one thing, we're very focused when we work, and very prolific, so we tend to follow up ideas our music leads us to, like "sophistication", longer/shorter song forms, more traditional or experimental approaches, Finnish folk fiddling styles, or whatever. So sometimes we'll end up with a number of tunes from one period of time that sound different from other things we've done, but sound consistent together. For another thing, when I put together a recording session or edit a record, I tend to choose material that belongs together for me. So of course one record can take on a very different personality from another. The fact that some people think Straight Not is a "poppier" record than our others and some think it's "artier" is encouraging to me; it means I've put these songs together in a way that they tend to support each other, even though no one agrees what the result's been.
We haven't moved to California, either.
23. Do you want to be a part of this "free punk" movement (The Ex, Dog Faced Hermans, Stretchheads, Archbishop Kebab, Dawson). Or is there a movement?
I never heard it called "free punk". Where did you hear that? What an awful expression. Yes, there is a group of bands with similarities of music and outlook here. Yes, I like all the bands you list... and don't forget Badgewearer! I read something in a magazine explaining how there was no connection among all of us, but you really shouldn't read music magazines... You probably know already that we've toured in the USA w/ DogFaced Hermans, and in the UK with Dawson, and also with Gag, and of course Brittlehip, a group including members of Dawson, S-heads, and A. Kebab. You must know what a big Stretchheads fan I was, that Sharon and I were 2 of the 2 dozen people at Stretchheads' only NY show, and that their drummer Jason and I played a show in Edinburgh, billing ourselves as de Gevoelege Knopjes. Did you know that Andy (Ex/DFH) and I played a duet show, and that Marion and Sharon joined us at the end? Did you know that Marion (DFH) and Sharon and I played as a trio?
24. Nautitteko elämästänne?
Elama on liian kivaa, niinkuin sykurmolarnirit ovat sanoneet.
25. Heard any Finnish music?
Topi Sorsakoski
Well, I hope that answers the questions to your satisfaction. Thanks for your interest! If any of your readers want to send us tapes of Finnish music (besides tangos!), our address is:
God Is My Co-Pilot p.o. 490 Cooper Station NYC 10276 USA
I'd like to send out a warm thank you to Toni Laakso for taking the time to get the english translation and sending this wonderful interview to me.
- Allan
Last modified: 25 November 1997